Strength Through Empathy

[00:00:01] Let me drink some water. There we go. Here we go? Yep. Is it time? I suppose it is. All right, G. Are you ready? As as I'll ever be. Push it. Greetings. This is the Long in the Boot podcast, the podcast coming to you from the heel of the boot of southwest Louisiana. I am your host, G. Long. Sitting across the way, as always, is Deb. Hi. Hi. How you doing? I'm doing well. Good. Glad to hear it. Oh, yeah.

[00:01:03] Well, if you'd like to reach us, Deb or I, either one, you can email us at longintheboot at gmail.com. You can call us at 337-502-9011. And the website is longintheboot at, no, longintheboot.com. There we go. Oh, okay. Yeah. Ooh, almost tripped you up. You were doing so well. I know. Well, you know. On a roll. All right. I was on a roll, but, you know, the heroin is kicking in.

[00:01:32] And I lost control. And you lost it. So what's been happening? And it's only the beginning. Oh, wow. That's such a broad question. Yeah. Yeah. What's been happening? Well, where do we start? Well, they all know. Well, you were out in the yard. I was. Spring is here. And you've been wounded. I've been wounded. Blood has been spilled. Yes. But that means I've christened the dark. Buckets of blood.

[00:01:57] Well, no. Not buckets, but it's fairly ugly. Tiny buckets. Yeah. I just, I leaned too far forward and should have not done that. Yeah. There you go. Took a tumble. And we've been recovering from the flu. Yes. Yes. We had some sort of. Missed the entire Mardi Gras break. Well, we didn't miss it. No. We needed it. It happened on our couch and in bed. Thank God. Yes. Thank God. I think we talked about that last time. So we're moving on. Did we? Yeah, I believe so. I think there's been actually a little extra.

[00:02:23] Well, the last podcast we did the day after the president's mind-boggling speech. Yes. And he's given several others since then. But. Well, he gave one at the Department of Justice that literally sounded insane.

[00:02:40] I'm going to get back at all of my enemies and. Well, he would, he would like to make a website or excuse me, news sites and websites and publications that criticize him. He would like to make that illegal, please. Yes. He would like to weaponize the Department of Justice. Correct. For him. No, he said he's going to. To wield it as his whim. He believes the Department of Justice works technically for him.

[00:03:08] Yes. But my answer to all of that always is, no, all of you, all of you work for us. Yes. You work for us. That's what the founding fathers intended with this whole popular sovereignty thing. Yeah. But I wouldn't expect people who can't read to know that. And so, you know, the. You're making a bold. I don't think. I don't think Trump is functionally literate. Oh. I really don't.

[00:03:34] I think he can read words, but I don't think he understands all the words. Well. Example today. Yes. Was he said that he was being a bit sarcastic when he said he would end the war between Russia and the Ukraine in 24 hours. Yes. As quickly as that. Well, that is not sarcasm. That is, in fact, hyperbole. Yes. And I am convinced that he didn't use the correct term because, one, he didn't know what it was. And, two, couldn't possibly pronounce it correctly.

[00:04:02] He would pronounce it like a child and say hyperbole. Hyperbole. And so, rather than do that, he said it being a bit sarcastic. Yes. Now, sarcasm actually would be more like, I think Donald Trump is doing a great job. That's sarcasm. All right. So, I just wanted to clear the air. Clear that for your listeners or for yourself, I guess. But we're not here to talk about Trump today. No, I was going to say.

[00:04:29] I was letting you go, but now you've finished that and we're moving past that. Yeah, we're not going to talk about Trump today. Instead, we're going to talk about an asshole. Oh. Elon Musk. Wow. You just went straight forward. I did. Okay. And, sorry, that's my opinion. And until somebody can prove otherwise to me, I'm going to stick by it. Okay. Not just because of the various interviews he's given with Joe Rogan, but a particular statement he made while in the most recent interview.

[00:04:55] So, you've got one particular thing that is the worst, do you think? The over-encompassing idea? Well, we know all of the things he's doing right now. For instance, butchering departments in the government. And I know a lot of people say, well, we have to cut the size of government. Which, hey, I'm all for making the government more efficient. But you don't do that. But the firing should have been done with a scalpel. Instead, they've been done with a chainsaw. His special blinged out chainsaw, I guess.

[00:05:24] I'd be willing to bet he's never chainsawed anything in his life. I'll bet he's never even mown grass. I wouldn't think he's had to physically do any labor if he is not mown grass. Well, we know he didn't when he grew up because in South Africa, they had black people to do it. And during apartheid. Yes, yes. And so, of course, he's never mown grass. He's never really had to do anything physical. Unless he chose to do it. Actually, that comes to something of the topic for the day. Before you just carry on about Mr. Elon and your dislike of him. Oh, no.

[00:05:54] It's a visceral hatred, actually. Okay. And before anybody says, well, you just don't like him because he's rich. No, I don't care. I don't care if people get rich. But I do care when they're attacking my government and they weren't even born in this country and they don't understand the actual history. And I guarantee you he doesn't know the history of the United States. Not a chance. Well, I'm sure he has selective ideas. Well, he was his own. Yes.

[00:06:21] His own addled, ketamine-fueled ideas. Yes. We've read about that, too. The interview. That's my point, though. It's all out there. All of these things that you're naming and itemizing are things that are already out there and everybody knows them and they still are allowing his actions. I think a statement he made during the interview is the issue that I have, which is the statement he made about empathy. Okay. Because I think empathy is important. And you were going to play the actual audio, but it was.

[00:06:50] I was, but, you know, I watched the audio or the video with the audio. They're both so stoned. Okay. That it just sounded stupid. It just sounded like stoners. Yeah. It really did. Okay. But basically what he said was he was bitching about Democrats. And he said that somehow or another they have learned how to weaponize empathy.

[00:07:12] But he described empathy as the greatest weakness of Western civilization and also said that it's a bug in Western civilization. Now, since he's a tech guy. Yeah. Yeah. We know what a bug would do to a system. So what he is saying basically is that empathy is bad for Western civilization. And it runs through all of our society. He says Democrats have learned to weaponize empathy. All right.

[00:07:38] And hearing that and Joe Rogan not doubling down and trying to get to the root of that because that's the problem with their interviews. And in fact, that's one of my complaints about Rogan's interview style is he never digs in. When somebody makes an outlandish statement, Rogan just lets it go. Yeah. And he says he does that because he lets it speak for itself. No judgment. Just let them say what they're going to say and you take it as you will. But if somebody tells me empathy is a bug, it's bad for civilization. I want them to. I would say give me some examples.

[00:08:08] Show me the problems. You know, and I also believe that that Elon Musk is a liar. And the reason I believe that is because it's been proven pretty much that many of the things that he said he saved, all the dollars and all these things have been proven to be not true. The idea of Social Security people in their 150 years old getting a check. That's nonsense. It's not true. And even the current guy running, Ludnik, who's running Social Security said, no, that's not true.

[00:08:35] But yet once it's out in the airwaves, it's out. And that's what people get in their head. And that's what they believe. And you're not going to change it. And Elon this week said that it wasn't Hitler that killed all those people during World War II. It was public employees of the Nazi party. The minions. Hitler didn't do it. So hence we need to cut the minions out of the government.

[00:08:59] But we established at the Nuremberg trials after World War II that saying, hey, I was just following orders doesn't fly. Isn't going to be okay. It's not okay. Well, there is a precedent set, but all things seem to be disregarded at this point. Well, first of all, let's just talk about Elon's background just for a minute. Okay. Are you going to really do that? Or are we going to talk about it? Just for a moment. Okay. I just want to say. Because I actually have some history about empathy. I do too. And the positive side of empathy. Well, good. Because empathy is positive. I'd like to counter the asshole. Yes.

[00:09:28] Stuff some toilet paper up in there. I get some rebuttal. He was raised in South Africa. Rebuttal. Thank you. Oh, man. I was like, we're going to let that go. I tried. Oh, my God. You are no fun. Anyway, he was raised during apartheid in South Africa. You've said that. And you have to understand that because of that upbringing until he was 17. His perception of life is skewed.

[00:09:56] His perception of life is the idea that there are people who are better than other people. And in South Africa, it was white people were better than black people. Economically. And also in every possible way. Black people didn't have any rights under apartheid. He did leave South Africa when he was 17, though, because get this. He would have been drafted into the military. And gosh darn it. He just didn't like that.

[00:10:20] He didn't have bone spurs like some people who couldn't go to Vietnam because of bone spurs and yet managed to play several sports while he was in college. But anyway, so he has a skewed view of people. Okay. And I find that to be kind of disgusting, especially when he's in charge of destroying people's lives. I know they call it doge. I know. But if you have no empathy. Okay. So here, let's just let's do that real quick.

[00:10:49] Well, let me do this. Let me just say what empathy is. I was going to do it. Well, but I have it psychologically. Right. Sympathy. I'm talking about the difference between the two because you always say, oh, I sympathize with you or. But sympathy creates separation. Let's talk about empathy. Okay. Empathy is described as the ability to take on another person's perspective to understand, feel and possibly share and respond to their experience. Yes. There we go. It fosters a connection with the person. Correct.

[00:11:19] It's not just you saying, oh, I feel bad for you because that's kind of a judgment that that's coming at it from a pity. Well, it's an eye statement. And that's a sympathy. And sympathy is fine. You need it. You need it for the sympathizing with somebody who you're maybe not really close to. But, you know, you have to see to empathize with somebody. You have to see them as another human being. Right. You have to be able to make that that emotional connection. And, you know, I guess if you're if you're religious, you would say there.

[00:11:49] But for the grace of God, go I because it could be you at any time. And you understand that. Right. That's why Jimmy Carter builds our built houses for people. Oh, you mean that terrorist organization? Organization Habitat for Humanity. No, that man who is our modern example of true empathy. He understood. And Habitat for Humanity this week was put on a list that they wanted to shut down their bank accounts because of their anti-whatever bias.

[00:12:19] So there you go. We've got a current administration wants to shut down Habitat for Humanity. They want to stop giving the money to feed the canines across this country that work for TSA our bomb-sniffing dogs. They don't want to pay for the vet, the kennel, the food. They're like 3,000 or no, like 30,000 of these dogs across the United States at airports. But they're just dogs. They're working dogs. Yeah. They're a resource. They do an important job.

[00:12:47] It's like, okay, so now we want to take them away from the airports? No bomb-sniffing dogs? How do you feel about that? Yeah. It's like, I'm already concerned to get on a plane. Hey, if somebody wants to bring a bomb on a plane, that's their business. Now I've got to worry about that. I like the idea of a puppy out there sniffing. We don't need bombs to crash planes. We just need to cut air traffic controllers. Okay, okay. So establish then that empathy really is the connection of one human being to another,

[00:13:13] that you really can see things and feel things from their perspective, even if you haven't had that experience yourself, but because you're a human being. And you have feelings. Yes. And you balance those with thoughts and ideas, ideally. Yes. That would be the way to do it. Am I my brother's keeper? Well, I don't know. Times they are changing, Mr. Long. Well, they are.

[00:13:39] So do you want to hear about positive empathy examples from past and history, or do you want to continue on about your non-empathy having asshole? Because I can understand an ass not having any empathy at all. Oh, well, absolutely. That really isn't much of a surprise. No. I find it interesting that empathy has so many variables.

[00:14:07] There's many different kinds of empathy. Well, there's empathy marketing right now. That's when companies try to, like Apple. Apple is a big company that advertises to us based on empathy marketing. Right. Because they understand that they're there filming the times of your life. There's grandma in the last video you have of her last Christmas, and Apple brought that to you. So empathy marketing is very effective. It works.

[00:14:37] It tugs at your heartstrings. It does tug at your heartstrings. So the companies that do that are often pretty good at selling things to us. So there's that. But really, the best time for empathy to be working is in society. Yes. And not just cognitive empathy, not just like feeling and thinking or saying, but actually doing. Well, you have to do.

[00:15:02] So throughout history, we've had a number of people who have been known for taking on empathy and showing it in an extreme way. Example. Like actually walking in somebody else's shoes. You know. Which is what you need to do. All right. So here, first one I got, St. Francis of Assisi. All right. Right. Learning from beggars. He, in 1206, was Giovanni Bernadone.

[00:15:31] And he was a 23-year-old son of a wealthy merchant. He went on a pilgrimage to St. Basilica, or St. Peter's. And at the time, he goes in the church and notices how beautiful it is and how lavish it is. And then right outside is the poverty of the beggars sitting all outside the church begging. Right. So he gets one of the beggars to wear his clothes or to give him his clothes. And then he goes out and spends his day. As a beggar. Right.

[00:15:59] And, well, consequently, right, started his own religious order of brothers who would work for the poor. So if you're with St. Francis of Assisi, you give up all worldly things. And you live as the people you serve. Yes. So he took empathy and experienced it. Connected with those beggars when he saw them in the midst of all of that. And, of course, he is also a very God-driven individual. Yes.

[00:16:30] So he's obviously associating the ideas of Christianity with empathy. With empathy. So you would think that people would embrace empathy. That was always what I got out of it going to Catholic school. I thought I learned that. Okay. So we have a woman named Beatrice Webb. And Beatrice Webb was wealthy. She was in early 20th century.

[00:16:55] She was a peer of Jack London and George Orwell, who also were social reformers and pretty much did the same kind of thing. Right. Lived the life of the people they were trying to help. Right. So Beatrice's family was very well off. Her parents were politicians and businessmen. And she decided to do some research in 1887 and went undercover in the urban areas. Right. Left her left her life.

[00:17:22] She wrote about her adventure, a book called Pages from a Work Girl's Diary. And it caused a huge uproar because here she is, a wealthy, wealthy woman living amongst the poor. Scandalous. Right. To have firsthand experience in a life of destitution. But yet she wrote about it and became popular and through her own empathy immersion, she said she was inspired to campaign for improved factory conditions, cooperative and trade union movements.

[00:17:52] Especially she founded the London School of Economics based on her experiences. Okay. Economics. Living among the poor because she understood the political side of it as well. Right. It wasn't just living with you had to help them. Yeah. Yeah. You can't just talk about it or see it. You can't just talk about it. You can't just see it and say, oh, that's, you know, damn, sucks to be them. Well, yeah. That's just sympathy. Yeah. The pity. Yeah. That's just pity. Oh, better them than me. Okay.

[00:18:21] And we've all been guilty of that. I mean, of course. We're human. We're human. Yeah. And I think part of it is hardship. That's my issue with Elon Musk. Yeah. The reason he never developed empathy is because he's never known hardship. Well, I don't know that Donald Trump has either other than his six bankruptcies. Maybe. Maybe so. He wields the courts. And is that one of the mechanisms to develop empathy? To have lost. To have lost. To have struggled.

[00:18:50] And not lost a family member. But I'm talking real true hardship. Yeah. You know. Where you can't pay your bills. Where you don't know how you're going to have dinner on the table. Well, taking someone who thinks that tomorrow they'll be able to make their rent payment and firing them, even though you don't really know what they do. But we just have to cut. It's just important to cut. Yeah. Cut, cut, cut. It's the head without any heart.

[00:19:16] And remember, the whole purpose of this, supposedly, of Elon Musk's doge, is to shrink government. But they're just expanding it in a different direction. Exactly. So that's what I see, anyway. If we're looking at this individual tree by tree or we're looking at the whole forest either way, you've got a lot of things building up. Well, for example, if Walmart suddenly said, hey, we need to cut 10% of our workforce, they wouldn't just go into stores and go, you're fired. You're fired.

[00:19:46] You, you're fired. No. They would sit down. They would take out books. They would try to figure out which people can we do without. Yeah. In which area. In which areas. Where do we have the most profit? And not, not do it to our customers. They would take, they would take time. And that's a large corporation. Yeah. The federal government is the largest employer in the United States. And you're going to tell me that from January 20th to now, they have figured out that all these people that they have fired were all dead weight.

[00:20:15] I don't believe that for us. No, they haven't had time to discover that. No, there's been no time. They've just gone in and slashed and burned whole departments. You'd like as an employee to think that you'll be judged based on your performance. And you might say, well, that can't be true. But look at how many people they've had to hire back after firing them. That's without the judge's order. Yeah. Which they're ignoring, by the way. There are plenty. They're ignoring. Okay. So I have one guy here who did something really extreme. Okay. What did he do?

[00:20:42] In 1959, a white Texan named John Howard Griffin decided that he wanted to know what it was like to be an African-American man living in the deep south. So he used a combination of sun lamps, pigment, darkening medication, dyed his skin black, and spent six weeks traveling, working in Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina. And apparently nobody ever questioned it, but he found it to be eye-opening.

[00:21:11] He said, being a shoeshine boy in New Orleans, people just look past you. They didn't speak to you. They just sat down and just never even saw you as an entity. As a human being. Yeah. And then just threw the money down on you. And so he just, he said the indignities of having to walk miles to find a bathroom, to get a toilet. Right. Because you couldn't just go to any toilet. Oh, God, no. Are you kidding? It's difficult to find a bathroom out in public today. So I can imagine.

[00:21:39] He said the verbal abuse, threats of physical abuse was just, you know, constant. So he wrote about his experience. He had a magazine called Sepia at the time in 19, what was it, 1959. And they had hired him to do this experiment. So it was just, it really did let American civil rights activists see that there were white people, too. Yes. And it kind of brought everything together, right?

[00:22:08] Because we know what's coming in 1959. We know what's coming in America. He got widespread attention. And he ended up working with Martin Luther King Jr. So he said, if only we could put ourselves in the shoes of others to see how we would react, then we might become more aware of the injustices of discrimination and the tragic inhumanity of every kind of prejudice. Yes. True empathy. Well, I have a person who did an amazing thing. An amazing act of empathy.

[00:22:38] Yeah. It's a little fellow that some people might have heard of named Siddhartha. Oh, yes. And Siddhartha... He did the same thing. ...was raised in the lap of luxury. Yes. He was a prince. Did not want for anything. Wanted for nothing. But he had conflict in his heart because he didn't know anything else and knew that something was missing. So what Siddhartha did was left his luxury... His lap of luxury life.

[00:23:03] ...and began to try to experience the world as it was and came up with quite a number of things that all kind of lead towards empathy. Number one about empathy, he said, hardship is required to humble oneself and to develop empathy. Hardship is required. He says, true empathy is to understand the pain that you have inflicted on others as you experience the same pain inflicted upon you. If someone makes you feel hurt, think about the times that you've done the same thing to someone else.

[00:23:32] True empathy arises from understanding and knowing that you have made someone feel as upset as you feel in the moment of pain and hardship. And he went on to talk about a lot of things. Love, which went right along with empathy. And he said that nature's greatest gift is love, the ability to have love and to love one another. And, gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? Yes, yes.

[00:24:00] I don't know whose message that might be. And as you pointed out with empathy, action is required. Yes, you have to do something. Siddhartha, you might know him better as Buddha, said that he was praised for his ability to spread good deeds and doings and to give people hope. And Siddhartha, by the way, did not believe in the religion of Buddhism. That came later. No, no. He just reached his point of enlightenment.

[00:24:28] But what he said was, you can always trust someone's actions before you can trust their words. He said words are easy to use, but actions are what defines a person. Yes. And that goes right back to this idea that Musk said with empathy is a bug. Well. A fault in the system. Yes. And there's no fault in people caring for one another. Well, that's the age of enlightenment, right?

[00:24:57] Isn't that what we came from? We always everybody wants to talk about the backbone of America and what we are as a country. We are the children of the enlightenment. Yes. That idea, that spark that we are all human beings. We all have the same everything. There would have been no renaissance and no enlightenment without empathy. Plato, who referred to empathy, and so we're talking people even at the time of Plato in

[00:25:27] ancient Greece were discussing this idea. Even though they didn't call it empathy yet. But Plato said that the Greek for empathy was the highest form of human knowledge. That nothing is greater than your ability to put yourself in someone else's place and understand how they can see the world and feel the world. But something else Plato said, empathy is hard. It's very, very hard.

[00:25:57] And so I think that's what's missing here is we have a bunch of people who believe they're doing good, but they don't understand empathy. Yeah, but they have no empathy for anybody that they're affecting. And so they are affecting a lot of people. And I don't believe that empathy is a weakness. As he said, the greatest, he's the greatest weakness of Western civilization problems. It's how we come to understandings and we find the middle ground between different points of view.

[00:26:27] And we and we can live better lives and not be in fear all the time. They're always trotting out the founding fathers for America. You know, America founding fathers. They would not have built the society we had without empathy. And this is the kicker. It is hard. And proof that it's hard is the fact that none of them could come around to the idea of ending slavery. Yeah. They could do a lot of things. But in order to have slavery, you have to look at those people as less.

[00:26:57] As less than you. And so you don't have to put yourself in their shoes. Mm hmm. And clearly for slavery to have lasted as long as it did, there were a lot of people in Western civilization doing that. And if empathy is such a bug in Western civilization, why are all the horrible things that we've done in Western civilization, the wiping out of Native Americans, the stealing of their land, slavery? And I could go on and on and on. You mean history. Yes. Yes. The events of time.

[00:27:25] If we can't look at those things and say, well, it was wrong. Yeah. Now, what a lot of historians like to do is say, well, you can't put yourself in their position because of the time they lived. No, what I'm saying is clearly empathy was lacking. Yes. In a lot of individuals. Now looking back, that was a mistake. Yes. Can we at least admit to the mistakes? And that empathy. And there's nothing really to be done. You just move on and don't make those mistakes again.

[00:27:52] Again, that's how you prove you've learned something as a society. Right. And so I find, again, I keep going back to that idea. The greatest weakness in Western civilization. Who says something like that? Well, the man who's in the number two position running our country. I thought that was the vice president. Well, actually, I don't know. I don't know anymore. I'd like to sit here and be knowledgeable and say that I understand, but I don't. I've gone past that.

[00:28:20] The word empathy actually doesn't appear in the English language in print until 1908. Yes, exactly. Isn't that crazy? I did see that. Yes. And it was a German of all people. It was the Germans who came around to this. I had him. I just didn't want to talk about him. Oh, shoot. Where is it? Gunter Wallerhoff.

[00:28:43] He spent two years as an immigrant worker, spent two years undercover as a Turkish immigrant worker. And he did not have to because he came from a wealthy family. There were two others, actually, I thought were interesting enough to share with our audience and you. I share it with you, too, because I like you. Well, I appreciate that. I like you, too. You're all right. You're a bit all right, sir.

[00:29:10] This woman, Patricia Moore, she was a product designer of products for all ages. So today she is one of those big people in the experiential empathy. They call that experiential empathy because you're experiencing the empathy, right? So she, in the 1970s, when she was 26, dressed up as an 85-year-old woman.

[00:29:35] She put on makeup, wore glasses that were foggy, had the lenses kind of fogged over so she couldn't see well. She wrapped her limbs, her hands with splints and her legs with bandages so she could have arthritis and wore two shoes that were different so she was hobbled when she walked. And then she went into the world for three years. She visited North American cities and just tried to live, open doors to stores and such

[00:30:03] and go up and down those stairs and get on buses. And in the events of all of that, she came up with many designs for products that people who have arthritis and elderly people can use. She is the reason that we have the Americans with Disability Act. I don't know if we still do. That may have been gone in the last 20 days. No, we still have it. Now, would they like to get rid of it? Probably. I guess they might.

[00:30:33] Because, you know, we have all those. Does that fit into DEI? We have all those ramps now. So really, do we need the ramps? Because people aren't going to get jobs just because they're in a wheelchair anymore. Yeah. You're not going to get that. She was a campaigner, though, for senior citizens' rights. She got the Civil Disabilities Act into law. And now, after all of that, she's probably dead now. I don't actually know when she died. But her latest project was rehabilitation centers for war veterans, people with missing limbs and such.

[00:31:03] And she says her whole approach is she is driven by empathy, understanding that our world is not a one-size-fit-all. No, it's not. In fact, we are old enough to remember when it didn't exist. It didn't have it. They didn't have special doors. There weren't ramps. There weren't ramps for people. Yeah, all of that. We built a world. And this goes back to the idea that people build the world that suits them. Yeah. Well, the world was built by people who did not have these problems.

[00:31:33] Yes. And so what empathy does is it requires you to put yourself in the position of those people and to try to figure out what would make their life easier. Actually want to be helpful. And we're really not trying to make it easier. We're trying to make it equal, if you think about it. Yeah. If you want to go into a store and you're in a wheelchair, you should still be able to go into that store without having someone carry you through the door. And to make it part of the building code is an easy step. Yes. It doesn't require a whole lot.

[00:32:02] Does it add some cost to your building? Yes. Yes. It's going to add some cost. However, you now can have people in wheelchairs come and buy from you. So you're increasing your revenue. So you're actually, so it should balance out. So there's a win-win going on. Oh, and it's good, friendly. You feel good. Yes. You know, you feel good about going there because they have the facility that enables you. Well, exactly. And empathy is not just a one-size-fits-all thing either.

[00:32:31] There are different types of empathy. You know, you have the emotional empathy where you can respond to another person's mental state. But you also have cognitive empathy, which is understanding another person's perspective. Yeah. And there is a difference. Yes. You know, feeling what somebody else is feeling and, but knowing their perspective are two different things. Well, yeah. And I don't, you know, some people, oh, well, I didn't live that life. But can't you imagine it? You know, I can. I would hope.

[00:33:01] I've never been that rich, but I can actually imagine some of the difficulties they might have in life. And then many of the things that would be a privilege that I don't get. But you can see it, can't you? I would think. You know, surprisingly, we have a lot of evidence that human beings are not the only ones who actually have empathy. How about that? Oh, animals, yes. Yes. Animals have empathy. Apes have empathy.

[00:33:32] Dogs, through studies, have shown empathy. And the way they did that study was they got children to mimic crying. And they had their dogs in the room and the dogs would come put their heads in their lap. Of course they would. Because they knew the child felt bad.

[00:33:49] Even Adam Smith, the man who created capitalism, said that the act of perspective taking is required for capitalism to work. And it's the ability to change places in fancy with the sufferer. So then that's really what we've lost. Businesses no longer care about us. Right.

[00:34:16] Well, I won't say businesses because obviously there are businesses that do. Yeah, well, that's true. We talked about stuff. My worry is that we're filling our government, the so-called swamp that we're cleaning out, but we're really just replacing a lot of the people with people who seem to lack empathy. And spending the money in other places, yes. Of course. And many of them are not qualified for the job they've been given. That may be true.

[00:34:40] Well, if you have children, though, what's really crazy is if you have children, if you are rich, ridiculously rich, and you have nannies and various other people to take care of your children, like if you grew up in, say, South Africa, then you don't develop empathy with your child. And that's probably where empathy truly began was the need for mothers to care for children. So you're saying mom wasn't coming in and getting enough hugs. Maybe so.

[00:35:10] Maybe so. I mean, we know he had a weird family. So we are making a generalization about what we know about his maternal relationship. Well, his dad had sex with his stepsister. So, you know, there's some weirdness going on there. I'm just saying. You know, we live in the South. What are you trying to say? What am I trying to say? My goodness. Well, you know, they talk. They say things allegedly.

[00:35:40] Allegedly. I have one last guy if you want to do one last history one because he was my favorite. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So the top of this poll, because there are several polls about great people in history who were empathetic, who did something, you know, a little extraordinary. A little? To show their empathy. Well, this guy, it's that the old can change, too, I guess, is the lesson I got from this guy's story. His name is Claiborne Paul Ellis. Claiborne.

[00:36:09] He was born into a poor white family in Durham, North Carolina, in 1927. So he worked in a garage during his childhood and youth. He thought blacks were, you know, the cause of all his troubles. So he, like his father, joined the KKK. He eventually rose to the position of exalted cyclops of the Durham chapter of the KKK. Amazing. Yes. All right. So fast forward 1971.

[00:36:37] He's invited to a 10-day community meeting to help solve racial tensions in the schools in North Carolina. Yeah. They had racial tensions? Apparently. So C.P. Ellis, as he was known, was chosen to head the race committee jointly with a local black activist who he hated. Her name was Ann Atwater. Okay.

[00:37:00] However, working with her completely just changed all of his prejudices about African Americans. He saw that she had shared the same problems of poverty as he had. They were not real enemies. The real enemies were the white businessmen and the politicians who kept their wages low, pitted the blacks against the whites. He said, I was beginning to look at black persons, shake hands with them, and see him as a human being.

[00:37:28] He recalled the experience over that 10 days. He said, something was happening to me. It was almost like being born again on the last night of the meeting. Perhaps he was and just didn't know it. Well, I guess if he wants to attribute it to that, whatever the change was, I would like to think it was this woman, Ann Atwater, and just who she was as a person. And maybe everybody else that was there trying to solve problems and being empathetic towards one another.

[00:37:56] On that final night, he stood at that microphone in front of 1,000 people. He tore up his Klan membership card. He later became a famed civil rights campaigner, labor organizer for unions. A communist, you mean. He organized a labor union for a 70% black membership union. And he and Ann remained friends for the rest of their lives. How about that?

[00:38:22] So you're never too old to learn something and to change and become empathetic. So maybe through experience, perhaps Elon needs to go live amongst the people. Right. Step out of the Tesla. Yeah. Get yourself out into the real world. And go and stay for a month with somebody you just laid off. Yeah. See what their life was actually like. See what they have to deal with now. And empathy shows up in all kinds of places.

[00:38:50] When we had recently, not too long ago, when we had cancel culture was just rampant. Yes. When we were in the extreme. I would say I would say those people who wanted everybody canceled. Yeah. No matter what. No empathy. Had no empathy either. And I remember we talked about the gentleman at LSU that they took his name off the library. Yes. I can't remember his name now. But the same kind of thing. The dean eventually, through letters, changed his mind. He came around. Yes.

[00:39:17] And he had put himself in the shoes of other people and came around and worked tirelessly with a black man to try to get rid of a lot of the racial rules that LSU had. Yes. In an effort to make equity and inclusion part of, well, part of the campus. Being able to see that, no, not everybody has the same opportunities based on how they grow up.

[00:39:45] So it's not terrible to be empathetic and understanding of somebody else's position. No. And my problem right now is what I see is a group of people led by Elon Musk, amongst others, who cruelty seems to be the point. And that's the part that's bothering me the most. No. The part that bothers me the most is that we have a number of people who are on board for that. Right.

[00:40:11] And I don't know when our country turned from always standing up for the little guy, because this is something in World War II, there was no question we were on the side of right. Yes. No question whatsoever. And since then, it seems as if we keep wanting to step into the other path. You think it's video games? No, I don't think. I don't think video games. I think social media might be part of it.

[00:40:39] In the 70s, they would have said it's TV. And then in the 90s, it was video games. And so what's making us less caring? I'm not really sure. We constantly hear people trotting out the, this is a Christian nation. Well, then your view of Christianity, at least to me, seems skewed. Yes. I think you're missing the emotional part of it. And I heard a preacher, and this is a good example, who was talking about, he was talking, well, he was collecting money. He was trying to get money.

[00:41:09] He's already vastly wealthy. But he was making a point that, because somebody, he goes, somebody sent me a letter and said that Jesus said, blessed are the poor in the Sermon on the Mount. And he goes, he didn't say that. He said, blessed are the poor in spirit. As if that's an excuse for wealth. But the problem is, there's another book very close to that Sermon on the Mount, and it's got the Sermon on the Plains.

[00:41:37] And in it, Jesus flat out says, blessed are the poor. And then he goes on to talk about the eye of the needle, and it will be more difficult for a rich man to get in heaven. Okay, so, you know, you can't just take one line and say, well, that excuses all of this bad behavior. I don't believe that. No, you have to take it as a whole. And I don't believe that our country should be focused on cruelty.

[00:41:59] And what I see right now is a group of people who are capitalizing on people's anger and people's hatred to build this political movement that certainly is adjacent to the early fascist movement in many countries. Because one of the things that's required in a fascist nationalistic state is that we not think about the feelings of others, that we not consider their position.

[00:42:26] And that can lead to something like we saw in the Oval Office with Zelensky. Whether you're for Ukraine or not, you cannot deny that Russia started that war. It was very unprofessional. When you drop bombs on people and kill people, you are the person who started that war. You did that. And we still do it. We still allow these horrible things to happen. And make justifications.

[00:42:52] And make justifications, all of which require us to set empathy aside. Yes, and not see them as human beings. And that bothers me because, as Plato said, empathy is the highest form of human knowledge. Well, the Star Trek future where we're all better. We're all better people. Well, I personally try to be a better person every day. I don't think we're going to reach that. And I don't think that I came to this like overnight.

[00:43:20] When I was young, I lacked empathy in many cases. But over time, experience should make you more empathetic, not less. And what I see is a bunch of old people who don't seem to have any empathy. So it begs the question, why? So like the story of the classroom, the high school that you posted where the kids walked out in support of the teacher who had the poster on her wall, all are welcome. It's a poster with several little arms.

[00:43:50] That's all you see. And they all have hearts on them. And they're all different colors. They're all different colors. And it says, everyone is welcome here. That's all the sign says. Nothing else. It doesn't have a point of view. It just says, all are welcome here. It was in Idaho, and they told the teacher that under the law, she had to remove the poster from her classroom because posters had to be neutral. Yes. And I am still trying to... Content neutral and hang on, hang on. Let me finish the policy. Okay.

[00:44:18] So it's policy number 401.20. The policy says that banners in the classroom must be content neutral and conducive to a positive learning environment. Okay. Explain to me how that sign... How that is not a positive... First of all, how is it not neutral? And positive. I mean, it's not promoting a side unless the politicians are saying, if you welcome everyone, you're a leftist.

[00:44:47] Well, that then means that it's okay to keep some people out. Yes. So we can segregate again. Exactly. Yes. That's what I see too. It's not neutral if you're saying that not all are welcome. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and so, and the idea that it's also a positive... How is it not positive? It's absolutely positive. Everybody that comes in here, child, you will learn... Everyone's welcome here except you, Susie. Get out.

[00:45:16] I don't like the way your hair's been done. So, but, but my point was in your story, because I posted one, it was, uh, it was still Idaho, but it was a middle school. Another... Yours was a high school and the high schoolers walked. The students... In protest. ...together walked out protesting the removal of that sign. Yes. Not the removal of the teacher. She wasn't fired, but if she left the poster up, she would have been fired. Um, she was forced to remove the poster. Yes.

[00:45:43] So what does that tell you about this idea of a welcome environment for students? Yeah, that's not very welcome. And so I was so pleased to see that those students said, wait a minute. So there is my hope. Okay. My hope. Because I always have to come to some hope. We can't leave our... The youth. We can't leave our audience with no hope. The youth. That they recognize, no, that's not right. Well, think about all the hatred that's thrown at the youth by... Social media? No, by politicians today. Oh, yes.

[00:46:13] They're dumber than ever. We have to shut down the Department of Education because kids are dumber than ever. Or kids this and kids that. And I say no. Well, first, are you... The students that I have today, I find them to be actually more empathetic towards their fellow students. Yes, I think so too. I think they're smarter than we ever give them credit for and probably have always been the case. Probably so. And I don't see...

[00:46:38] Well, because they still see things in a naive sort of way that you forget as an adult. Right. Because, well, life wears you down. And you see these kids sometimes struggling with horrible loss. Yes. All sorts of things. Horrible situations at home. God knows... And some of them have a poetic spirit. And Lord knows those kids who live in the poetic world, they struggle with some of this stuff.

[00:47:03] Well, and I think the kids that shut down, that actually don't participate in high school is just a horrible experience for them. A vehicle to get to a... A horrible place. Yeah, another place. I think it's because they haven't been shown empathy. Maybe so. And they know. That's the other thing. People know when somebody's not empathetic towards them. Yeah. And I think that, again, cruelty should not be the point of anything in governance. Certainly not.

[00:47:31] Well, and governance shouldn't be part of the social conversation. Well, it has to be. You can't take... But they can't do everything. They don't need to comment on everything. Well, it's this culture war. I heard somebody... I talked to a friend of mine, and he was talking to his coworkers about the loss of money from his 401k in the last 20 days. Yes. And he pointed out that the last time this happened, it took two and a half years, and it was in Joe Biden's presidency. Yeah. This took 20 days.

[00:48:02] And $100,000 in value in 20 days. So he's talking about that at work, and they said, well, yeah, but at least they're getting rid of DEI. That's the most important part. Well... We're not going to be inclusive. We're not going to be... And how does that hurt you? Equality. You know, they're taking links. You have a job, so clearly DEI didn't take your job.

[00:48:27] Well, we saw this week with the removal of pictures from the Pentagon database, where they removed the first black soldier who got a Congressional Medal of Honor. Because now their story's not valid. Understand on the website for Arlington Cemetery, they're removing links that used to be there for educational purposes, for instance. So like if I'm doing research on one of the first black... People put in Arlington. Yeah, buried there. Buried there. Maybe they're my family member. Congressional Medal of Honor, actually.

[00:48:57] Yes. And you can't find that now. Now it's just not there. They're wiped away. They're wiped away, those links. All right, George Orwell. And this is in an effort to get rid of DEI, as they put it. They blamed an airplane crash on DEI. Look, they weren't hiring. They weren't just going out and saying, hey, you, since you're black, we need you to be an air traffic controller. Wait, wait. You're black in a wheelchair and a woman.

[00:49:26] Oh, yes. We want to hire you. It wasn't going on. Now, can DEI go too far? I am absolutely sure it has and can. That's been the point. That's why the Democrats lost, because they went too damn far. They went too far. They planted their flag on the trans hill. They went all heart and no head. Republicans were all head and no heart. And here we are in the middle. In the middle. This is not inclusive. This is what the other teacher's sign said.

[00:49:54] In this classroom, everyone is welcome, important, accepted, respected, encouraged, valued, and equal. That's a lot of sign. That is a lot of sign. But that means that was not conducive to a positive learning environment. Absolutely not. Those are all negative adjectives. Because there are people who should not be welcome. And they shouldn't be encouraged. And they shouldn't be. What?

[00:50:24] This is. It's ludicrous. We're going the opposite direction. This is what happens every time. I'm so sick of the culture war between the two parties, which I believe, I have always believed, that this is what they're doing to keep us from paying attention to all of the really bad crap they do. Yeah, this isn't big. Because, again, I go back to if they really, truly want to cut the budget. Yes, you've got to start. You've got to start by corporate subsidies. Yes.

[00:50:53] Corporations that are making profits in the billions of dollars should not be getting tax dollars in any form whatsoever. Do a flat tax for businesses. But cutting research into cancer at John Hopkins, how is that helping anyone? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's insane. Yeah. It's all the wrong stuff. And here we are. But it shows the lack of empathy. It shows that they're going to cut the things that people need. But back to those workers who are glad that they're attacking DEI.

[00:51:20] What was it that hurt them with DEI? They're working in a job making good money. They have a good life. So what was it about DEI that upset them so bad? The idea that maybe we would include or have equity in hiring? Is that what they were upset about? They, I guess. I don't know. They're taking our jobs. They took our jobs. Oh, South Park.

[00:51:50] Hurry up. And yeah, no doubt. We need a new South Park. It's time. It is time. And it's going to happen soon. But again, I just don't. And I'm going to just say it. I don't think that cruelty in governance should be the point. No. And that's what I keep hearing over and over and over. Hate and hate and anger. Anger. And disregard for humans. Yes. People we all be.

[00:52:15] Pointing out like somebody who was damaged by an immigrant, who was murdered by an immigrant. We can all get on board with, oh, that's ridiculous. That should have never happened. Yes. There's no problem with that. But to use that to malign all other immigrants is needlessly cruel. And to take, well, they have to do something, right? Something like that happens. So we want something done as a society.

[00:52:41] But then what they do is far too extreme and not logical. Well, he said most of the immigrants are criminals. He said that. He said most of the people who cross the border illegally are criminals. Well, by definition, because they cross the border illegally, they're criminals. Yes, they've already done that. But that's a lie done with a malicious intent. Okay. Which is to paint a whole group of people who are simply trying to, well, achieve a better life, which is what we want, I thought.

[00:53:07] No, I think what we want now is for them to stay where they are and not come try to achieve a better life here. Yes, because we need our own people to do those menial jobs. They may now be better where they were. It probably will be. Yes. Our unemployed government workers are going to go. RFK said that there needed to be like summer camps where they could go and work, especially the ones who need to get off of antidepressants and certain drugs. He would know about drugs.

[00:53:37] They can go work at these camps. And it's like a wonderful repose. You know, they're going to go and garden. He didn't use the word farm, but I would think it's more farm than gardening. But that's just me, you know, my cynical, sarcastic view. Well, and part of it is also one of the people behind all of this is a person very few people even know about, which is Russell Vaught. Yes, we've talked about Mr. Vaught.

[00:54:06] And Vaught, who professes to be a born-again Christian, has zero empathy. I don't know how that works. Oh, yes. Exactly. His words, absolutely. This is what he said about federal employees. You said this last time, I think. I'm going to say it again. We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down. We want to put them in trauma.

[00:54:37] Yes. Not only his actions, but his words. So he's just straight up telling. And he's doing it. They're very bold about that, I'm seeing. I think that that really tells you all you need to know. And he is in charge of the office of the OMB in government. And so. Yeah, he's a big deal. He is a big deal. He's also one of the main authors of Project 2025. Yes. And. All right. We can't go there.

[00:55:06] Well, we could go there, but then it'd be a five-hour podcast. We're going to wrap up our empathy show. So. Because we're, we can have empathy for others who are confused at this point in our history. Sure. Because I am, I am definitely empathetic about that because I understand people are just trying to make a living. Yeah. I guess that's the case. Everybody's trying to get by. We all want to get by.

[00:55:35] You know, Maya Angelou said we all have empathy. We just don't all have enough courage to, to show it. So you got to be courageous to show you're empathetic. Yeah, I guess. So he's, he's, he's not courageous. Well, no, I think they're hiding behind their shield of money. Yes. Shield of money. Well, you know, it's a, it's a pretty good shield until it's not because there are more of us than there are of them.

[00:56:05] Well, yes, exactly. And I, and I, I truly believe. 1% holds 40% of the wealth, but we're more than the 40%. I mean, we, there are more of us. If, if anything, just use history as the way to deal with this. It can be dealt with in the French manner. But the problem with that is, of course, many, many people become shorter. It becomes ugly. And no empathy. No empathy. No, the empathy went away.

[00:56:34] The empathy is gone. In fact, if you look at the radicalization of the French Revolution. Oh my God, Elon was right. It is a bug. It's just in the poor people. There you go. Oh my God. Yeah. Once you reach a certain level, you no longer, you no longer required to have empathy. So it's only as poor. It's those poor. God damn it. Well, think, I mean, honestly, we could do a whole episode on the French Revolution. So stoned Elon was right. Stoned Elon. Is there any other kind?

[00:57:02] I think he's damaged his brain, actually. I think he probably has too. I think we're, we're trying to avoid the discussion of the cognitive decline of an, a 79 year old president and the cognitive decline of a billionaire. Yeah. When did he become required to be a papa to be president? I mean, honestly, I don't know. I mean, I'm telling you, we're being guided by a whim. It's whatever whim he comes up with. Oh God.

[00:57:30] But think about people who are like 80 years old and some of their whims. I know. Even my mom, she had whims that were crazy. Yes. I read them sometimes on Facebook. I loved her dearly. And sometimes those whims would be like, no, that's not sending you that. That's not going to happen. Linda, you don't need that. You don't need that. You're not getting a bike. No, you don't need a recumbent bike. You won't even leave your room. That one was funny.

[00:58:00] It was a whim. It was a whim. A delightful whim, but a whim nonetheless. Sweet. I miss you, mom. Golf of America, Linda. Golf of America. She would love that. I think she would. She would love it. She really would. And I know a lot of people think it's great. They're like, yes. I'm like, you know, really the Gulf doesn't belong to anybody after you go out 12 miles. And shut up. It's not important. It's the Gulf. It's a distraction. Oh, of course it is. He was flying over and he said that shit and somebody did it.

[00:58:30] Actually, I was. They need to stop it. I think that somebody realized that because of some rules that were put in place to keep us from being able to drill in the Gulf of Mexico as it's written down. Yes. They just said, well, we'll just change the name. We'll change the name. And if we can't drill in the Gulf of Mexico, we can sure as hell drill in the Gulf of America. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Drill, baby, drill. All right. Well, we know how their jingles work. Yeah. And the Democrats don't have a good jingle. They need a good jingle. They do. Everybody needs a good jingle.

[00:58:59] So advertisers have taught us that. They need a leader. Well, no, actually, we need a new leader. I don't give a shit about the Democrats or the Republicans. We need something else. Yes. Some middle. Yeah. Middle. I don't know what we're going to call it. It's amazing to me that some of the Democrats that have been president, looking at them now, they could easily be middle of the road. And they were called leftists back then. Let's call them the Buddha Party. We're the Buddha Party.

[00:59:29] We can see both sides. Plato. There you go. The Plato Party. The highest form of human knowledge. Empathy. Empathy. Everybody's sitting around playing Plato at the Plato Party. It's spelled differently. I suppose you say hyperbole. Actually, I do. If I'm being snarky, I do. That's how I get them to know how to spell it. Or if I'm making fun of Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah. And that is how I spell it. Like spag head he. Yes. And wednesde. Yes.

[00:59:59] I got it. Yeah. There you go. I never could get necessary down though. That's in the way. Okay. Grammar struggles. Well, on a good note. They are real for people who care. On a good note. Yes. We, Deb and I, celebrated our 38th wedding anniversary on March 13th. On Friday. Yeah. Next year it'll be Friday the 13th. Oh, how exciting. I know. It's back to that. Because we got married on a Friday the 13th. Yes. Yes. Back to that. Because we don't care. That's right. That's why. We tempted fate. Yes.

[01:00:29] Yay. Yay. I think we won. We have 38 years married. 42 together. And 30 great years. Oh, shut up. You all know that's a bunch of bull. Of course it is. Of course it is. You know why? Do you know why you love me so much? Empathy. Maybe you have some of that. Because I would have kicked you to the curb otherwise. Because I definitely can shut off the empathy. Oh, yeah. I can turn that off. Somebody said that the other day in class.

[01:00:58] They said, Mr. Long, do you cry? I said, oh, yeah. Yeah. Men are way more emotional than women. And he's like, what? I said, well, yeah. I said, your attitude that you think women are more emotional than men. No. Women can shut that shit off. How many women do you know ordered the bombing of innocent women and children? How many? Yeah. But there's lots of guys you can name. I said, who's the more emotional? I want to kill every last person over there. No, right?

[01:01:26] Women would be just like, I want to figure out some way to make them feel bad. That's irrational. But me personally, you love me personally. Yes. Because I have my joy and I take it wherever I go. You've pointed out that it is portable. It is. And you can take it anywhere? Anywhere. I try. I do try. You're better now. Oh. It's wearing off on you. Wow. Yeah. I'm wearing you down, baby. 42 years, I'm wearing you down. Yeah. That's the secret to happiness, folks. You just got to wear them down. That's it.

[01:01:57] I'm weakened. I can barely move. I'm like a vampire with no blood. My joy is like a weight on you. The old ball and chain. Spring has sprung, people. It has. Yes. Well, you know what? I feel like. You feel better now? I feel a little better now that I've gotten this off my chest. You've unloaded your asshole-ish ideas? No, my ideas are not asshole-ish. My ideas were about an asshole. Oh, that's right. Named Elon Musk. I forgot how he started. Okay. Okay. And by the way- We've come full circle.

[01:02:27] Can you call him that? Yes, I can. It's America. I have a First Amendment right. And somebody says, well, it's not very nice. You're kind of slandering him. I could say, well, it was hyperbole. Hyperbole. It was just a lot of hyperbole. Okay. So Elon Musk is allegedly an asshole. Okay. But that implies that more people think it. So. Hmm. Interesting way to say it. Somebody else alleged it. I just signed on. You just joined it. Yes. I believe that for a while, actually.

[01:02:56] After seeing several interviews. Yes. Listening to him speak his gibberish and people go, oh, it's so profound. No, it's not. With his pretentious accent. Oh, God. He sounds so well. All right. Yeah, I know. We're getting out. Stop it. Tech bro. You should have cut this off. Yeah, I guess I should have cut it off. All right. I apologize to all of our listeners. For rambling. For rambling on. Okay. When Deb usually ends the show with saying, your joy is portable.

[01:03:26] You can take it with you. See you in two weeks. What a crazy world.